Samoa Joe - overrated?

What do you reckon is he overrated? - I'm personally not a fan for similar reasons of not liking Lo Ki also.

Just been watching the TNA PPV that was shown on TWC this Sunday and it was just as I recall from any of his matches very predicable not really proper wrestling in my opinion. There is just something missing he just relies on all this heavy blows and kicks and doesn't really work a good match plus he won by choking his opponent which is obviously a DQ not a submission!!
I personally would rather see old tapes of some classics rather than see Samoa Joe doing his repetitive routine.
If we were to compare all of these overrated ROH wrestlers the decent to WWE wrestlers of a few years back there would be no comparison. This next generation are not inspired by great wrestlers like Brett Hart,Harley Race,Flair,Steamboat etc they are inspired by ECW and UFC.

Oh yes what about his charisma and acting ability?
Or lack of shall I say...

Anyway what do you reckon of Samoa Joe or Lo Ki for that matter?

The way I see it, Joe tries to keep his character seem realistic like you see the wrestlers in Japan do.

He doesn't need to go about with a flashy gimmick or spouting catchphrases... he's all about beating people up whether he's the face or the heel.

For such a big man he has a lot of technical/submission wrestling ability rather than just pure power moves.

I'll admit he does take a lot of his moveset from Japanese greats such as Misawa and Kawada but who doesn't steal moves from other wrestlers these days?

Personally, I'd rather see a Samoa Joe "stiff n' stretch 'em" _style_ match than a Hulk Hogan "hulk up, big boot and leg drop" _style_ match or any of the other bodybuilders trying to wrestle you get on WWE shows.

Can't help thinking he's got a silly face,he doesn't have a mean face or a likable face. He doesn't actually change his _expression_ a great either.
If you were to compare him to Haku for example Haku was convincingly scaring and didn't have to go to the extremes of the boots to the head Joe does.

Well, there is more than one way to scare people in the ring.

Undertaker for example just looks at you and it's scary enough... whilst someone like Taz (in his prime) when wrestling would seem like he was legitly trying to hurt his opponent. I mean take the match between him at Sabu at Barely Legal '97 which had a lot of people thinking it was going to be a shoot.

That's kind of the way that Joe goes about wrestling... his matches have a suspended disbelief that he is going about the match looking for a way to get a knock-out or tap-out like a shoot fighter would.

But obvious thing to a wrestling fan who knows the rules is that a choke is a DQ as it should have been when Taz did the same but that was in ECW where there no rules and things made no sense.

ECW was in a league of it's own... it didn't follow to the normal standards of promotions at that time.

Though if you look at matches you can see that the referee starts the DQ count when a blatant choke is applied and the wrestlers in offensive released the hold before a DQ was eligable.

The things about MMA-_style_ chokes is that they don't put the vicitm in danger of death by suffication that the blatant chokes do... in fact they are designed to cut the flow of blood to the brain thus rendering the victim out-cold.

The Katahajime hold is no different as it squeezes both sides of the neck where the jugular arteries are located.