Well, Richard, from the UK shows I've seen I've seen nobody who's good enough to have a good match, unless a much-superior talent from abroad was brought over to guide them. It seems UK workers aren't trained the fundamentals, or, they aren't stressed, because "wrestlers" seem more content to "look good" by hitting loads of spots rather than constructing a good, smartly-worked match. I've comtemplated getting trained, but I'd want to know that EVERYONE would be wanting to have good matches FIRST, but they just don't.

But it should be about the money and by looking at other arenas than just sports gyms, school halls should be looking at the pub/club idea...

This point up my previous statement. Wrestling is a business and promoters are in it to make money. Either not enough was previously generated ( even during the 'boom' years ) or promoters were not prepared to re-invest into their chosen business, thus resulting in a lack of proper training facilities and the current lack of top class wrestlers.
It really doesn't matter where a show is staged, if talent is not available the quality of wrestling will not be there, and neither will the audience for the next promotion !!!!
Is there anyone within the wrestling game prepared to argue or debate these points - at the moment the silence is deafening :o
Going back to Saraya's original posting - I totally agree with the penultimate paragraph, but would argue that without the ammuntion handed out by certain sections of the wrestling community, us fans would not be able to fire the broadsides at wrestling that upsets you Saraya. You should remember that not all promoters and wrestlers have the integrity and love of the game that you ( and I believe the WAW generally ) have. Without these kicks up the jacksie nobody takes notice and nothing will be done, as in previous years.
I have loved watching good wrestling for 25 years ( until the mid-1990's ) and take no pleasure in raising these issues on the forum. I would, however, take great pleasure in knowing that the comments were being taken as serious, constructive criticism and not the rantings of a few disgruntled fans.

Looking to take wrestling into 'differant ' venues, is something I think you'll find , most promoters would be wary of doing because the crowd reaction would be an unknown quantity. I'm not dismissing your 'pubs and clubs ' idea out of hand because I have just been approached by my local British Legion to arrange a show for them---but they streesed that they wanted a 'family show'.However if there was a show in my local pub, have the audience would want to get in the ring and then we are back to the 'fair ground wrestling booths'.
The talent is out there but with an ever dwindling fan _base_ and that fan _base_ fragmented by all the feds and promotions it is hard for the wrestlers to make 'a name for themselves'.
I like to explain it like this: Football fans support many differant teams--but when England play they all support just the one team----British Wrestling doesn't have an 'English team'.
People say that Wrestling needs to get back on the TV to get the fans back----my local banger racing track is not on TV but will draw crowds of 2,000 plus on a monthly basis---and while you are there you will not hear them having a pop at a rival track---you will hear them promoting a rivals next meeting or arranging an 'inter-track' thus bringing together two sets of fans an potentionally doubling thier audience.Now that is GOOD BUSSINESS.

I can remember wrestling shows being put on at the function hall of the Canary PH in Norwich some years ago and were very well supported. These were not 'family' shows but attracted top of the programme stars such as the legendary 'Dangerous' Danny Lynch. Shows were also put on at the Norwich Sport Village woth such stars as Danny Collins and Dave Findlay, again these were well supported. However, the owners of these venues eventually chose not to let out their halls to the wrestling fraternity. I understand that WAW have put on a number of decent shows at the NSV during the past couple of years. New venues are being tried, but are they successful in this day and age ?
I would disagree that sufficient talent is out there, that is why there is a dwindling fan _base_. There are very many fans, such as myself, who would be delighted to return to live wrestling but do not because of reasons previously stated.
How can you compare a team sport (big business?) such as football with wrestling? Soccer has always been seen as a 'legitimate' sport for dad's to indoctrinate their little darlings into from an early age, whereas wrestling has always had the stima of 'fix' to contend with.
Please answer me these questions if you think they compare:-
Why has there never been large scale sponsorship in wrestling?
Where are the advertisers at shows? (WAW are on the case of that one !! )
Where is the support and money from the TV networks?
Where is there a national controlling body for wrestling, to look after it's interests, raise it's profile and thus bring in the monies ?
Until Wrestling as a whole can find within itself the will to organise nationally it will remain ( attendances-wise ) in the sporting wilderness.

Finally, banger racing is not a serious sport. It's supported by fans who enjoy watching competitors drive around a track and smacking their vehicles into one another - REAL skill !!

Until Wrestling as a whole can find within itself the will to organise nationally it will remain ( attendances-wise ) in the sporting wilderness.

I think you have it in one.

I would just like to say that perhaps the most informed views from this debate so far seem to have come from Richard Pyke. Richard, I remember you asking if anyone thought it would be worth your driving to Norwich for October Outrage IV this Saturday. From a bias point of view, I'd say give it a go.

As for your other comments, although I'd love to see them happen, I don't think they will. Apart from working on their various websites, I do a few other things, some around the office, for WAW. I would love it if this was a full-time, paying job. But sadly, I don't think it ever will be, unless two things happen.

1) WAW gets that long awaited television contract (let's not forget how close they were last year).
2) WAW gets a sponsor who is willing to invest a VAST sum of money (this could actually happen sooner rather than later).

Richard, get yourself to OO4 this Saturday!