Crowds over here as well like to interact with the wrestlers alot more, love it or hate it. British wrestling fans like to boo a baddy and cheer a heel in the old fashioned sense of the word.

One thing I've said before a number of times is how limiting your average British crowd is on what wrestlers do in the ring. I don't see the point of really going in-depth with the point since it's hardly something people are going to argue against. It can get really insulting, really quickly, though, if there has to be a "baddy" and a "goody" in every match though. There should be *roles* in a match, of course, but they should after all make sense.

Why a much bigger, stronger wrestler backs off and stalls from his smaller, weaker opponent simply because he's playing the heel is beyond me. And that's a genuine example from the All-Star show I saw last year. No intelligent crowd will ever buy something if it doesn't make sense.

Why does Alex Shane do some horrible, contrived, business-exposing chain wrestling with an opponent 8 inches and 50 pounds lighter than he is instead of just mauling him and throwing him across the ring? If he wants to show he's "more than just another power fighter", show it with smart wrestling, play the monster, study Aja Kong's work or somebody else. Not with sloppy and horrendously fake-looking wristlock flip-flop. Even he wants to do the wristlock stuff, why not just reverse it with his strength/power advantage rather than rolling?

OK, rant against Alex Shane's stupidity over.

So, yes, your average British crowd is very limiting to what wrestlers can do, and not just in "forcing them" to work a familiar _style_ (sports-entertainment/spotFU/panto, take your pick). They also greatly limit the amount of stories wrestlers can tell (not like most bother... but maybe that's the reason other than they "can't" or "they wish to entertain" :|) and as such, the amount of variety a show can have. Many people say shows need a great deal of variety, but you don't need to shove in a high-flying spot-monkey-a-thon from Jody Fleisch or someone to do that. You can have all kinds of variety with the stories wrestlers tell and, HEY, WHADDAYANO!?!? the work might also be able to make sense, too.

In all fairness Jack i do agree with alot of your points and i wish that was true but in most cases it isnt.

The majority of the audience are kids. Lets be honest. Kids in this country are the mainstay of british wrestling fans and havnt got the concentration span to watch a really well thought of match.

And if people didnt want to see people clap there hands and heels doing cheap heat they wouldnt respond to it, simple as. But they do

In all fairness Jack i do agree with alot of your points and i wish that was true but in most cases it isnt.

What you meant to say was "In all fairness, Jack, I do agree with a lot of your points and I wish that some of the things you suggest wrestlers doing would work, but, here in Britain, most of the time, they wouldn't." .

The majority of the audience are kids.

In this country, of course. After all "Wrestling's for kids; it's fake. Now, let me watch my soaps."

Lets be honest.

I always am. When discussing wrestling at least...

Kids in this country are the mainstay of british wrestling fans and havnt got the concentration span to watch a really well thought of match.

Exactly. Hence the "British crowds post tremendous limitations on what the workers can do in and with their match" point. But workers know that the fans in this country are very limiting and don't/rarely give them the opportunity to wrestle in a way that will see them develop into good, smart wrestlers (provided they *want* do become such, that is).

And if people didnt want to see people clap there hands and heels doing cheap heat they wouldnt respond to it, simple as. But they do.

Actually it's more a case of "... they wouldn't go to the show again. But they do." Your crowd of average-fans are always going to "play along" regardless of what the guys in the ring are doing posing-wise. Face says "chicken", crowd chants "chicken". Ring announcer starts chants over the PA, crowd continues said chant...

. Debates, ma man, don't you just love em. .

So, yes, your average British crowd is very limiting to what wrestlers can do, and not just in "forcing them" to work a familiar _style_ (sports-entertainment/spotFU/panto, take your pick). They also greatly limit the amount of stories wrestlers can tell (not like most bother... but maybe that's the reason other than they "can't" or "they wish to entertain" ) and as such, the amount of variety a show can have. Many people say shows need a great deal of variety, but you don't need to shove in a high-flying spot-monkey-a-thon from Jody Fleisch or someone to do that. You can have all kinds of variety with the stories wrestlers tell and, HEY, WHADDAYANO!?!? the work might also be able to make sense, too.


No one is forcing anyone to do anything, but again this boils down to Wrestling here in the UK being family _base_d and as part of a family _base_d show, you need to be able to entertain all. Our last show, 70% of the audience were under 14, they wanted the pantomine of wrestling, they could not care what move was performed, as long as the wrestlers interacted with them, clapped hands, called them names, sang the entrance songs. This is the crowd that most british promotions work to. I am a dad, and my son loves wrestling, he could not care less if a match has psycology, he wants the wrestlers to know he is there and he wants to be entertained. If I put on a show, that was aimed at adults would he site there and enjoy a 3 hour show. No he would not, he would complain and want to go home. Adult _base_d ring pyscology will never get over here in the UK, not unless we want to play to 30 people. Thats more degrading to a wrestler than entertaining 300 screaming fans. I have yet to meet a wrestler who does not enjoy entertaining in a panto _style_ role. Thats the way wrestling is over here and will be for many years to come.

You can argue til your blue in the face, call Alex Shane to hell and back, but who knows what they are talking about????

Gary

No one is forcing anyone to do anything...

Yes, they are. Here, I'll re-post the rest of yours...

...but again this boils down to Wrestling here in the UK being family _base_d and as part of a family _base_d show, you need to be able to entertain all. Our last show, 70% of the audience were under 14, they wanted the pantomine of wrestling, they could not care what move was performed, as long as the wrestlers interacted with them, clapped hands, called them names, sang the entrance songs. This is the crowd that most british promotions work to. I am a dad, and my son loves wrestling, he could not care less if a match has psycology, he wants the wrestlers to know he is there and he wants to be entertained. If I put on a show, that was aimed at adults would he site there and enjoy a 3 hour show. No he would not, he would complain and want to go home. Adult _base_d ring pyscology will never get over here in the UK, not unless we want to play to 30 people. Thats more degrading to a wrestler than entertaining 300 screaming fans. I have yet to meet a wrestler who does not enjoy entertaining in a panto _style_ role. Thats the way wrestling is over here and will be for many years to come.

What you are saying is if a wrestler wants to perform in front of a "hot" crowd, with "lots" (for Britain) of people in that crowd, they do the "entertainment" way; hence, they are "forced" to do the "entertainment" match. See? Or did you think I was suggesting promoters (or fans!) literally force/bully wrestlers into working spotFU or panto, Gary? .

Tut Tut Tut Jack, poor reply from you there.

Its true, no wrestler is forced to work a show or a match. Its all down to free will. As I have said I have yet to meet a wrestler who does not enjoy working the crowd. The UK crowds are mainly kids. If bums are on seats and people go home happy whats the problem????

Because you hate Alex Shane, Because you hate British Wrestling, you hate pantomime matches, Because you were not breast fed as a baby, you know what It doesnt matter what you think jabroni, because its like this, I would like to take your japanesse puro tape collection, turn them sons a bitches side ways and ram them straight up your candy ass. Do you smell what the rock is cooking.. Panto mate, every one loves it. I could have responded in a way jack would have enjoyed.

IN SILENCE!!!

Not my _style_..


Gary

Its true, no wrestler is forced to work a show or a match.

Agreed. But those that do are limited in terms of the _style_s they can work; they are "forced" to work certain _style_s over others.

If bums are on seats and people go home happy whats the problem????

To the promoter? Nothing. To a serious fan? That depends on the quality of the wrestling.

Because you hate Alex Shane...

I've never met the guy. Just because I say he's an awful, insulting, contrived wrestler who tries to impress but goes the totally wrong way and his work is senseless; that doesn't mean I hate Alex Shane. As a wrestler, well, yeah, but it's not like I'm forced to watch him. He's just a really "good" example of poor/stupid wrestling that people on this board would be familiar with. I could similarly list Gary Steele or others, many who people wouldn't be familiar with... you're the one that tells me to use examples people on this board will know of rather than "some jap".

Because you hate British Wrestling...

Not at all. I just haven't seen anything particularly with "rating" (as in rating highly, giving large amounts of praise to). Just for you, Gary, when I get this Billy Robinson (A british wrestler! OMG!) vs. Shohei Baba 2/3 Falls from 1976 in the week that I know and have on good authority is great, I will post a big write up just for you, focusing in particular on what Billy "brings to the table".

...you hate pantomime matches

Yeah, but what serious fan wouldn't? They invariably suck, insult the intelligence of anyone who wants to take wrestling seriously and "buy" the action, and miss the most important aspect in any wrestling match; the sense of competition.

I'm not getting into the next one...

Panto mate, every one loves it...

Well, young children, yes. I have nothing aganst Cinderella, Snow White or any of the rest of them. It's when wrestling is made to become such I don't like it.

I could have responded in a way Jack would have enjoyed.

Yeah, a serious well backed up argument . Rather than trying to have a laugh and insult me (don't worry, it's not like I could give a damn or anything... I'm not from the South and my voice did break when I was 12 ).

MOD EDIT - we're nearly there with you and the swearing Jaqk keep an eye on it though please