Its true, no wrestler is forced to work a show or a match.

Agreed. But those that do are limited in terms of the _style_s they can work; they are "forced" to work certain _style_s over others.

If bums are on seats and people go home happy whats the problem????

To the promoter? Nothing. To a serious fan? That depends on the quality of the wrestling.

Because you hate Alex Shane...

I've never met the guy. Just because I say he's an awful, insulting, contrived wrestler who tries to impress but goes the totally wrong way and his work is senseless; that doesn't mean I hate Alex Shane. As a wrestler, well, yeah, but it's not like I'm forced to watch him. He's just a really "good" example of poor/stupid wrestling that people on this board would be familiar with. I could similarly list Gary Steele or others, many who people wouldn't be familiar with... you're the one that tells me to use examples people on this board will know of rather than "some jap".

Because you hate British Wrestling...

Not at all. I just haven't seen anything particularly with "rating" (as in rating highly, giving large amounts of praise to). Just for you, Gary, when I get this Billy Robinson (A british wrestler! OMG!) vs. Shohei Baba 2/3 Falls from 1976 in the week that I know and have on good authority is great, I will post a big write up just for you, focusing in particular on what Billy "brings to the table".

...you hate pantomime matches

Yeah, but what serious fan wouldn't? They invariably suck, insult the intelligence of anyone who wants to take wrestling seriously and "buy" the action, and miss the most important aspect in any wrestling match; the sense of competition.

I'm not getting into the next one...

Panto mate, every one loves it...

Well, young children, yes. I have nothing aganst Cinderella, Snow White or any of the rest of them. It's when wrestling is made to become such I don't like it.

I could have responded in a way Jack would have enjoyed.

Yeah, a serious well backed up argument . Rather than trying to have a laugh and insult me (don't worry, it's not like I could give a shit or anything... I'm not from the South and my voice did break when I was 12 ).

Now jack thats a response.. By the way I was not insulting you, just a little bit of light entertainment, when your a little older you will appreciate the lighter side of life, and might just stop taking everything so god damn serious.

Actually, Gary, I take *very* few things seriously... er, seriously. But that's not really important. I'm actually "light-hearted" a lot of the time here (and on other boards) but it usually goes over people's heads or is concsidered an insult so :|.

... I honestly thought I disliked wrestling for years as a kid because of the boring stuff on ITV years ago,but then I happened upon the WWF with its glitzy characters,which as a kid appealed to me

If that was the case, then you were clearly not a wrestling fan as such, certainly not a fan of British Wrestling, so what on earth are you doing on this board?

Now World Of Sport wasnt excactly bad, hell it did have some very good wrestlers but it didnt change with the times. ITV killed itself when it started to add WWF to its programme ... All of a sudden the british public saw that British wrestling wasnt the only thing going and demanded more from World Of Sport. ... From the production standards to making wrestlers better themselves (physically). World of Sport was old hat. (Sounds abit like the end of WCW dosnt it?)


I don't honestly think that the WWF killed off the ITV contract (unless you have reason to believe Vince slipped Greg Dyke a few backhanders) At the end of the day, it all dates back to Dyke's efforts to rebrand ITV to make it more alluring to American corporations who wished to advertise products to a young affluent audience (yuppies basically). Whereas in Britain, wrestling was very much mainstream, in America until relatively recently, it had been regarded as hopelessly declassé, the choice of entertainment for the very dregs of society. And Dyke had to ultimately tailor ITV to appeal to the US-_base_d corporate execs. It took a good couple of years shifting the timeslot around to trim back audiences to the point where Dyke could justify cancelling wrestling, but he got there in the end.

At the end of the day, but for a quirk of unfortunate timing, the WWF explosion could have saved ITV's wrestling coverage. Had Sky been launched a year earlier or the contract renewal due a year later, Dyke would have had considerable difficulty justifying the cancellation just as a major wrestling craze was breaking out.

because instead of seeing fat man in spandex they saw Hulk Hogan, who at the time was in amazing shape, had bags of charisma. It just made people like Big Daddy look like complete jokes. ... World of Sport didnt deliver. Daddy and Haystakes {Sic} were still clogging the main event instead of being a novilty act like they should have been and nothing was evolving.

How old were you in Jan 1987 (when the first WWF tape was shown on ITV)? I was 12 going 13, in theory just the perfect target market, yet I absolutely HATED the WWF show, the total chaos, the absence of any actual wrestling, the way it failed to take itself seriously at all. People like Johnny Saint, Danny Collins and Marty Jones made Hulk Hogan look a complete joke.

Yes, Daddy *was* a total insult to the skills of a great many British talent (and was certainly responsible for the evolution of All-Star as a serious competitor to Joint and as an altertaive for fans - and Wrestlers.) But in the WWF, it was as if every bloody match was a Big Daddy tag match. Which was abominable, frankly. If it wasn't for the Aptermags I'd have never given the US scene the time of day.


Thats my 2 cents anyway

Well, I can see America's influenced you, then!

How old were you in Jan 1987 (when the first WWF tape was shown on ITV)? I was 12 going 13, in theory just the perfect target market, yet I absolutely HATED the WWF show, the total chaos, the absence of any actual wrestling, the way it failed to take itself seriously at all. People like Johnny Saint, Danny Collins and Marty Jones made Hulk Hogan look a complete joke.

Yes, Daddy *was* a total insult to the skills of a great many British talent (and was certainly responsible for the evolution of All-Star as a serious competitor to Joint and as an altertaive for fans - and Wrestlers.) But in the WWF, it was as if every bloody match was a Big Daddy tag match. Which was abominable, frankly. If it wasn't for the Aptermags I'd have never given the US scene the time of day.


To be fair i was just a child when world of sport finished and my view is also infulenced by reading books such as The Wrestling and watching things such as Robbie Brooksides Wrestling Diarys and yes as i completly agree as wrestlers people like Jonny Saint, Marty Jones and Danny Collins could out wrestle Hulk Hogan in a flash but my point was that Hulk Hogan was in the main event in America and looked like a complete star. Like an action movie hero but we had people like Big Daddy who was obeasly overweight and delivered the same match over and over again.

It started to expose some of the old british stuff weakneses (i mean more production value wise) and if World Of Sport responded quickly by changing the production standard of there show (i wouldnt change much about the wrestling because i could sit and watch Saint, Finlay, Collins etc all day) then prehaps things might have been different but they didnt and it ended up being cancelled. I know Greg Dyke was obsessed with turning ITV into a cool hip channel and loosing the working class roots however the ratings for World Of Sport were getting lower and lower each week and nothing was changing about the programme.

And for you Mr Mantell, that was my Two PENCE

Hulk Hogan was in the main event in America and looked like a complete star. Like an action movie hero but we had people like Big Daddy who was obeasly overweight and delivered the same match over and over again.

We had five such people: Daddy, Haystacks, King Kong Kirk, Scrubber Daly and Bully Boy Muir. America had Andre the Giant, King Kong Bundy, Kamala, One Man Gang, Bam Bam Bigelow, Adrian Adonis and further afield Dusty Rhodes. Later in time, there were Big Bossman, Earthquake and Tugboat/Typhoon. So don't repeat that old myth.

It started to expose some of the old british stuff weakneses (i mean more production value wise) and if World Of Sport responded quickly by changing the production standard of there show ... then prehaps things might have been different but they didnt and it ended up being cancelled.

4WIW I'd say that the production values compare respectably with ITV (and BBC) coverage of boxing at that time (and indeed today) which is what it was more generally likely to be compared against.

If you want to see really shoddy production, just check out any US territory up until at least '89. Even the WWF could sometimes look quite cruddy and amateur - check out the 1988 Rockers vs Conquistadors house-show match on the WWF High Flyers tape as an example: badly lit, spotlights following the action all over the ring, grainy picture quality with a funny yellowy hue, one high-vantage camera angle. You used to get a lot of bouts like that on the late-night ITV screenings of WWF tapes.